Transcript:
Alrigh welcome back to the copy writers podcast with your host the world’s greatest copywriting coach David Garfinkel and a return of a very special guest today I’m super excited for today’s episode so I’m just gonna shut my mouth and hand it over to you David okay Nathan and you may want to jump in because this is a pretty exciting discussion but I’ll we have the Sherlock Holmes of internet marketing Maron Vatika they say that right there Maron and I Rickett that a cat and and so he’s he came across something that’s actually kind of serious some impending news and we’re just gonna jump right into this I’d like you to imagine a day in the future when you can’t use lead magnets or opt-in marketing methods anymore to get new customers imagine you can’t use outbound telemarketing either now this dystopian future this fantasy has nothing to do with government regulation or you know malware on the internet or anything like that it has to do with one of the friendliest warmest you know squishy companies on the internet on the planet or so you thought the guys who make this thing Apple and they are kind of gearing up to make your job close to impossible well that day is actually coming it could be as soon as September 17th of this year the company is Apple like I said and the Sherlock Holmes of marketing Maron has done some detective work to discover all of this and he’s got proof and before we get into this disturbing situation you absolutely need to know about here’s a friendly message from our disclaimer department at the cop writers podcast copy is powerful you’re responsible for how you use what you hear in this podcast in most of the time common sense is all you need but if you make extreme claims and or if you’re writing copy for offers in highly regulated industries like health finance business opportunity you may want to get a legal review after your write and before you start using your copy by a larger clients do this all the time so Marin welcome back and let’s jump right in how did you discover this what did you see and what should we be worried about well first of all thanks for having me back David and I want to say in your disclaimer you say you are responsible for how you use everything you heard in this show I think everybody listening if you are involved in online marketing and you don’t use what we talked about today you’re also responsible to what might happen in the next few years starting your account a little like Jay Abraham go ahead I don’t know if that was a compliment or not we’re not gonna open that on the show right now he says you have a moral obligation to make as much profit as possible there you go so anyway as you hinted at the beginning of the show this thing I discovered is gonna have massive massive implications for telemarketers as soon as September 17th email marketers get to look at what Apple is gonna do to telemarketers and say AHA I see where this is going and we’re gonna get a chance to prepare a little bit in many ways it’s a short across the bell but in essence you know if you look at internet marketing for many years now the most obvious funnel that almost every company uses is you put a lead magnet you send traffic to that lead magnet and let’s say about 10% of the people who download the lead magnet buy from you that’s great they become customers everybody else you keep mailing them over a period of time until they eventually hopefully become customers right that that’s how we do internet marketing that’s the funnel yeah that’s what we used to be able to do but soon Apple is gonna put all that at risk because the kind of race you’re racing with email marketing is 2% of the people on your list change their email address every month on average meaning after one year 25% of the people on your list poof gone you cannot email them again so that gives you like this many months to try and sell them but and as I said most of the selling is done – they’re like the 90% of people don’t buy right after the lead magnet they buy after they get to know you but what if Apple took away your ability to have them get to know you well no because what Apple are doing and we’re seeing the first step as soon as September 17th and we’ll talk about what is unique about this date in a few minutes I’m guessing what Apple is doing is basically allowing people to basically have emails that self-destruct and remove themselves from your list once they got the value they wanted and they add you know if you think about how hard it is already in a competitive market to generate leads at a profitable price and sell them if instead of losing 25% of your list a year you would lose 8090 percent a year not a lot of businesses can survive that without adjustments okay so that’s scary as hell could you describe an email that self-destructs and how it works and yes let me tell you how I know about this and why why Apple I even doing this like what’s going on here and it all starts with a patent that Apple has sent into the Patent Office back in 2014 and back then a lot of Apple geeks were paying attention to it an Apple described an integrated system that allows easy creating and using of disposable email addresses in yes so the keywords are disposable email addresses limited lifespans and when Apple came out with it in 2014 everybody was like or all the Apple geeks it didn’t really reach the inside marketing circuits Apple geeks were like wow this is interesting but then the patent kind of went dormant Apple really did nothing about it and I began to think they just forgot about it moved on and it’s important before I tell you yes the patent is waking up and he’s waking up in a very powerful way perhaps scarier than I imagined originally but let’s just explain really quickly what Apple patented and how that is unique what Apple is saying is everybody can set up a disposable email address even today you just go to gorilla mail or something like that go calm and it gives you like an inbox that expires after an hour but it’s not private you don’t know what they’re tracking what they’re doing with your emails it’s not easy the UI the user interface is not nice and it’s just work and what Apple patented is saying instead of having one email address that expires after an hour they needed a new one what if you could have unlimited email addresses that actually link behind-the-scenes forward behind the scenes to your address that you could create and dispose quickly and easily you know the Apple way that’s what the patent is all about and it’s important to know that when Apple described the use cases of this pattern patent in the independent they talk about all online commerce activity they’re not talking about just Apple they’re not talking about just apps the the speck of this patent is massive but until reasonably it didn’t seem like anything is going to happen until WWDC the Apple developers event a few weeks ago where they released the Developer Preview the first initial release of iOS 13 the new operating systems – ok let me let me interrupt you for a second so when you originally told me about this you said this is important because a lot of internet traffic including a lot of people who are going to be opting in for lead magnets Apple happens on an iPhone or on an Android phone a large portion of that is going on in I want to jump ahead a little bit on the technical stuff if you have like a Samsung or any number of other Android phones you’re gonna be able to use this this same Apple thing right it’s platform-independent yeah so here’s a really scary thing originally like literally when you and I first talked about this a week ago when I said David maybe we should break this on the show it still seemed like it was gonna be an Apple thing and when I say an Apple thing that still means you know a huge portion of smartphone devices in the United States I’m looking at the stats now 45 percent of smartphone users in the USA use Apple that’s already a huge portion of the smartphone market and most ecommerce ecommerce diste is happening on mobile so it began by saying okay this is gonna impact forty five percent of the phones and that is true for telemarketers but this thing with disposable emails that’s coming to every phone on the planet every desktop every tablet Apple doesn’t care they’re gonna let everybody use this to increase their privacy and reduce spam Wow okay and then tell us about the telemarketing aspect of this because well I don’t particularly love I think I’ve got two of them from Marriott yesterday about how I am getting a free vacation that I didn’t ask for and don’t want and so I hung up on him all of those calls if you push one button or click one switch as a new version of iOS are going to be able to disappear yeah so one of the biggest pet peeves u.s. smartphone users complain about is spam calls its phone calls from companies doing telemarketing and Apple has heard the they heard the the the all the pain and angst that people are experiencing and in this WWDC event they revealed two features one is about email I’ll describe that in a second the second one takes far less time to explain it’s a little toggle switch on your settings on your phone that says silence all calls from unknown numbers now these are not unknown as in when you get blocked number on like you can’t see the number any number not inside your contacts list will go automatically to voicemail Wow okay so this is this is very powerful telemarketing so let’s take an example I buy a supplement from Victor Venus company Victor was on this call he was one of my mentoring clients he has a supplement company he had a telemarketing Center which took the orders and then sometimes would call back either to check up or to see if you wanted to buy more to make a different offer those calls would be seen as unknown even though you have a business relationship with his company and that call center and it would go to voicemail and I I think that’s really bad news you know I when we were talking about this I mentioned a blind date that I had that I wanted to share with you and you thought it’d be a good idea to talk about it on the podcast too long long long time ago I I can still remember I could still remember sorry that was don’t explain yeah I was looking for a new girlfriend I’m fortunately very happy now but at the time I was looking and I had a blind date with a woman from match.com or something like that and we met somewhere and so you know we got to so what do you do she said well and she said it sort of with their nose up in the air well I’m a lawyer for the Apple store if you have anything that you’re selling and you want to put it in the Apple store it goes through me and she said what do you do I said oh I’m an internet marketer and she said oh you’re a spammer and mm-hmm you know we didn’t have a second date I bet you’re not but and it looks like none of us are getting a second date with Apple ah no I mean she she may be in a very powerful position of control right now and she may still be bitter that there wasn’t a second date well chemistry just wasn’t there but you know to me that’s sort of the attitude they are the world’s largest company they don’t use direct marketing they have everything pretty much through retail and they do sell through their website and through Amazon but you know they got the position where they can be more of a branding company than a direct company it seems like the same attitude is going on here because this Apple patent it’s not going to take effect in September for everything but for for people who are developing apps so let me explain not just apps David and I think the scary part is that Apple are doing it the Apple way I know the patent says we’ll make it easy but boy have they made it easy and have they given people a good reason to use it and I think that’s this really scary part before that I’ll just you know open a little loop and say you know telemarketers who are listening to this and thinking oh well it’s just Apple phones only people who install iOS 13 like we’re gonna have some time people don’t upgrade so quickly blah blah blah no true no true at all 75% of Apple phones will have iOS 13 by January that’s how quickly they’re gonna just take over so we’re talking 30-something percent of the market the telemarketers will not be able to call anymore because that’s not sugarcoat it but nobody is whitelisting and adding companies to their contact list that’s not happening right and we’ll get to solutions potential solutions to that at the end if you want okay so back to the email thing the really amazing thing that Apple showed again is how easy it is you know how in apps are websites you have this button that says sign in with Facebook sign in with Google right and it’s always so easy people love it and actually there’s a lot of sense from a privacy point of view you don’t create passwords you don’t give your email you don’t do all these things everything runs through Facebook or Google or whatever it’s a bit more secure so Apple is saying you know what we’re doing sign-in with Apple but when you sign in with Apple a pop-up comes out and it says do you want to do you want us to give them your Apple ID or do you want to hide your email and we’ll give them a disposable email address that is the first time we see that patent from 2014 back in the limelight and I shared a screenshot with you exactly what it looks like like it just says here’s the name we’re giving them here’s the email we’re giving them do you want to hide your email the use case is so obvious a large large portion of the people are gonna go yeah why not why not hide my email I’m a little bit confused I just have a question is this only for people that have Apple emails right so let me address that so first of all the way it’s gonna work and David is now sharing exactly this this screenshot the way it’s gonna work it is can click sign in with Apple and you can have an Apple account whether you’re an Android whether you want I phone whether you are Microsoft Windows desktop doesn’t matter you can have an Apple ID and sign in with Apple now if you have an iPhone there’ll be an even bigger no-brainer because as soon as you do this you can use face ID or touch ID to log in to every service you use you don’t eat your number passwords anymore and that’s where Apple are really gonna kill it now you may wonder if Apple are opening their ability to hide my email address while I would apps say yes I’d like why would they allow Apple to do this and this is where it kind of goes – you’re blind to heat story because Apple is gonna force them if you want to have an app on on the Apple App Store that allows to log in with any external service like Google like Facebook you’re gonna need to allow users to log in with Apple or you’re out of the App Store and that means it’s gonna just you know getting to millions and millions of our apps as soon as September but how is that gonna influence the pop-up that shows up on my website I don’t see how gifts so that’s that’s why I’m saying this is the shoulder across the Bell this system the Apple and that’s a great question the system that Apple describes in the patent is way bigger than what we’re seeing from them right now what we’re saving that right now is a major reason for concern for anybody who has an app because their best customers which is their app users with the best prospects leads for paid memberships can hide their emails from them starting September for us email marketers with the pop-ups right now there still isn’t a sign-in with Apple but interesting things happen when Apple starts pushing privacy as a big thing as a mission to the world it started with them talking about the Facebook pixel and changing Safari and now Google are forced to change Google Chrome to limit our tracking ability as marketers email is next if Apple opens up the API or I should say when Apple opens up the API of sign-in with Apple you could have just like when you have an email field and it offers to pre-populate it with your name cuz the phone knows the phone could easily say use your email us or a different email and right now in these early days these disposable emails are not going to expire unless you go into a menu and and make them destruct and distract them yourself and expire them yourself but again going back to the patent where Apple is going with this they’re talking about functionality where you could stay if I don’t open three or four emails in a row from this mailer just dispose of this email and that’s one other thing is that they make it very convenient because this email is like a redirect on a website stuff comes to that email and then it gets bounced over it exactly email so it’s very convenient to use you could have a million different disposable emails and you don’t have to keep track of anything you just get the email coming in and you say okay I’m tired of getting stuff from I don’t know this you know email marketer and and you just you just click but the thing is David the I’m tired of getting stuff from right now only 41% of email readers act on this feeling right 41% of people if they get an email they don’t like consistently emails they don’t like consistently they unsubscribe or report as spam which is the same as an subscribing for all purposes but you have 59 percent of the market that are still passive and if Apple first of all they introduced this in app but if the patent says our vision for fixing email is having mechanisms where you could say in advance I want this to expire in a week I want this to expire once I’m done reading from them Denali is where it gets really scary thing for internet marketers especially when you look at what they’re doing for telemarketers it’s not like Oh Apple would never do that though it looks like that’s exactly what they might do so slowly step by step anything let me just say this and ask your question slowly step by step Apple is closing in it’s like they’re starting to paint email marketers and telemarketers into a corner one step at a time Nathan you had a question I’m sorry yeah I was wondering about list health I know that if you have a lot of bounce-backs if you have a lot of emails on your list that are no longer active that actually sends messages to to Gmail and some of the other ones that you’re not a good person to receive emails from how is this going to affect the people that aren’t using this this opt-out option so he finds them correctly a question you sing and I’ll just explain when people have a big mailing list or even small mailing list and you send an email there’s a number of people who have replaced their email address and that email address bounces meaning you send the email and the service says sorry this address doesn’t exist and Gmail and Yahoo and and Microsoft all of them are tracking how many bounces every sender gets and if you get more than one in a thousand or something like that bounces you start getting into the naughty list and on the naughty list your emails don’t get delivered anymore to real people who actually want to hear from you and Nathan if you’re saying hey if emails thought you know if disposable emails start expiring without people even telling us we’ll my bounce rate go up and will it affect me in negative ways as a sender and I would say abso-freaking-lutely because you know Gmail or whoever they don’t necessarily know what’s a good bounce what a bad bounce and the other part of this is Android and Apple are consistently playing these games of everything you can do I can do better so you can expect a similar feature once they figure out how to override the patent from Google as well now in the initial stages if all the bounces are going to come from a specific Apple domain used for disposable emails maybe it won’t affect us yet but I think again the key here this is a shot across the bow this is where Apple is going and by definition where Apple is going is where tech and Internet is going let’s not forget they were the first to remove the floppy disk from a laptop they were the first to put a cd-rom there’s a disk in in a laptop they and they were the first to remove that – like Apple determines whether the market is going and if Apple decides you know this is so serious we’re gonna force every app in the world to work with this starting September I think it’s pretty clear everybody listening who relies on lead magnet marketing needs to look into other options to reach these precious leads before they self expire if it doesn’t happen in September it’ll happen next September let’s talk about solutions let’s talk about solutions well actually there’s there’s a lot of facets to looking at this and that’s why David you suggested very smartly that we hold an online mastermind for everybody listening on the show and a few interesting guests to really review and get give the full details on these things so do you want me to tell people about this mastermind or do you want me to go into a few okay we’re just a bit so we’re calling it the day after email mastermind and I know this again might sound scary to people it is scary like again Apple is killing inbound outbound telemarketing September who knows when they’re gonna pull the plug on email who knows how the market is gonna respond and how people are gonna start saying hey I don’t want to give emails anymore it’s multiple email addresses are great idea do it like Apple it’s so easy so that’s why we’re having the day after email online mastermind how to survive and flourish once Apple carpet bombs email marketing and I think those it might sound like big scary words but I think I’m under steady the risk here for people we’re gonna talk about how to make sure you get people’s real email addresses in a new world where everybody signs up with Apple or at least plenty people sign up with Apple we’re gonna talk about email and telephone alternatives so how to get higher opens and higher click-through than ever before then you’re getting with email today or you’re getting with phones today cuz there are ways to get into people’s phones and FIFA people’s lives that are way more effective than email these days and as a little hint part of those tools everybody talks about bots we’re gonna talk about the truth about bots and the key to me making them work and that’s all coming we don’t have a final date yet right but it’s coming sometime in August and we have a landing page for that the day after email comvee day after a mobile calm and David it’s something you suggested we do for the audience of the show so I should say David has been very very generous and convinced me we’re gonna run it for free despite the fact that we’re gonna have a few interesting guests on board and I invite you all to participate and David you’ll be participating there and helping us come up with the strategy for the day after email as well I expect yeah I’ll I’ll be there I wanted you to announce it since this is your show and I’d like to participate and we are going to look at specific strategies I I can’t tell you who who the guests are yet because neither of us know but we’re gonna try and find people who either know how to keep I mean really know how to keep people on and he want to stay on an email list or people who know how to operate entirely outside of email like Facebook and so forth so this this ought to be good the day after email com right I think we can share with the audience we came up with a little bit a hit list of like 15 people and those are like the 15 people in the world where if email died tomorrow I think they can make their business work the next day like that’s how effective their strategies are and that’s why I want to bring them to this discussion yep so I I guess that’s about it Marin thank you thank you for scaring the living out of me about about Apple and what they’re doing because I think our podcast listeners need to know about this and then if you’re listening on an apple podcast app please review and rate the show it might be the only way to get no he’s right you should yes so Nathan I just want to say this whole episode has been a waltz back in time to my conspiracy theory days and it felt like it felt like the day after tomorrow’ promo but man all of this is legit and some of this stuff is some of the stuff has been things that like behind the scenes I’ve talked with Ben settle about and he’s been planning for this and some of the other email marketers that I know that are big in the email game they all know that this is coming and they’re all trying to get their contingency plans in place and in order and I know personally my business relies heavily on email and I’m thinking about going back to direct mail or maybe text message marketing I’m not sure but this is definitely something that people need to be prepared for so one more time before we’re out of here where do people go if they want to sign up for this webinar so once again that’s the day after email Colm and I would say it’s all a webinar it’s gonna be an online mastermind people are gonna get to participate ask ask questions it’s gonna be a real learning experience and a real working experience rather than a lecture cause we’re not gonna lecture there’s really smart savvy people listening to the show and we’re gonna figure it out together well thank you Maron really time to relax until September that’s true have a great summer everybody David Maron thank you both for a truly horrifying podcast until next time make sure that you’re checking out more episodes over at copy writers podcast and we’ll catch you next time that’s you next time you
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